Collin+and+Alex

Collin Krall Alex Achey
 * __Transcript__**

Krall: Hi I’m Collin Krall. I’m here with my partner Alex Achey, and we are interviewing John Schlegel who was born in Lebanon, Pennsylvania. He was born on August 27, 1934. His highest rank achieved was a sergeant. He is my grandfather, and this interview is being conducted for the Veteran’s History Project at the Library of Congress.

Krall: Why did you decide to enlist in the military?

Schlegel: At that time, it was 1952, The Korean War was in full scale. It was pretty much a bad place to be because of the severe winter and stuff they had over there. We also had to draft at that time. So I wanted to get in the service right out of high school, so I enlisted in the Air Force, and that was in September of ’52.

Krall: How old were you when you enlisted?

Schlegel: I was 18 years old.

Krall: What were your, what were you expecting war to be like?

Schlegel: Well, I really had no idea what you would see in the North, but what I did see was pretty nasty. From what I saw, the young soldiers over there in the fox holes and the and the frost biting. It was a bad place to be, so I wasn’t anxious to get to Korea. Although, later on, being a young person, not having any fear in your body I did volunteer to go to Korea, but thank God they didn’t send me. Instead they sent me to Saudi Arabia.

Krall: Were any of your family members in the military while you where?

Schlegel: Well, I had three brothers, and they also enlisted in the air force. Some were in the air force the same time I was in, and my youngest brother was in the Vietnam War, and I was out of the service by then.

Krall: When you enlisted, how did you tell your family and how did they feel?

Schlegel: Well, I imagine they expected it because, a lot of the young people were either being drafted or going into the service, so it was not a surprise to anybody. It was hard to leave home for the first time, because being a young an and I think it effects most young men it was a little scary.

Krall: What was your role in the Air Force branch?

Schlegel: Well, I wanted to be an air plane mechanic, something I could use when I got out of the service. So that’s what I asked for, but they sent me to Rome Air Force Base, in the Griffis Air Force in Rome and I was a mechanic for about a month, and then they assigned me to the air police. So that was my occupation for the next four years.

Krall: So you picked the Air Force so you could use it later on in life?

Schlegel: Well, yeah, only in the sense that I thought what I learned in the air force would help me later on in life, but as it turned out, but it was a great experience but it was not an experience in any particular occupation. I didn’t want to be a policeman when I got out of the service.

Krall: What was training like?

Schlegel: Training for me, I think being a country boy, I enjoyed it. I enjoyed going through the trials and stuff, and the marching and through the training crawling under the barbed wire fences and jumping over the water, and I was good at that stuff. I enjoyed it when I was a young kid I’d go out in the woods a lot and camp and stuff like that and shooting, and I enjoyed the shooting range we had a lot of fun. To me that was enjoyable shooting the different weapons we had in those days.

Krall: How did you arrive at your base?

Schlegel: Well my first assignment after I enlisted was basic training at Sampson Air Force Base in New York, and after three months of basic training I was shipped to Rome air force base, Rome City Griffis Air Force Base in Rome New York. After about a year serving there, and in 1954 we were flown over to Saudi Arabia. That was my one over seas assignment in Saudi Arabia in 1954.

Krall: Did any enemies ever try to attack your base?

Schlegel: No, remember where I was at. There was no war going on it was interesting to note though, that the French were still in Vietnam and the para- troopers once came through our base, to refuel I guess, and these were the fellows that went over to the last battle in Vietnam and that’s where they were pretty well defeated. And the French lost Vietnam shortly after that.

Krall: When you were at your base, how’d you keep in touch with your family?

Schlegel: Always through the mail.

Krall: Did you have any friends in Saudi Arabia?

Schlegel: Well yeah I did. Remember, I was stationed and a bunch of us were stationed in Griffis Air Force Base, in Rome New York, and actually one of the friends I went over with was a classmate of mine. We went through twelve years of school in Lebanon Pennsylvania, and we enlisted in the Air Force together, and I remember he and I when we left our houses just the two of us it was kind of a down moment, you know, leaving home for the first time. We took a base to Harrisburg where they had to take a physical and they swear us into service, and they gave us the option while we were in Harrisburg because they couldn’t take care of us right away so they they gave us the option of going home and coming back again, or staying in Harrisburg in a hotel some where until the next morning, so we could leave. And I remember when he and I talked about it since it was kind of hard to leave home for the first time, we both decided we were not going to go home and go through this all again. So, we decided to stay in a hotel there in down town Harrisburg and wait until the next day to catch a train and to our next station which would have been Sampson Air Force Base. Anyway, he was a fellow that I was with most of the time in the service, and we were very fortunate that we were buddies we were actually stationed in Saudi Arabia at the same time. The only time we were separated was when we came back from Saudi Arabia. He went to California, and I went to Georgia and on my last six months of service I volunteered, because I liked to travel. I volunteered to California, and we both got discharged on the same day from different places from California and he came up to my base and we both got in his car and drove home from there. Day and night I would sleep while he was driving and he would sleep while I was driving and I had to get home real quick because I had to sign up for college, so I had to get home in time for classes. So anyway it was interesting I was stationed with him most of my career in the air force, and we still contact each other.

Krall: What was the food like in Saudi Arabia? Schlegel: Well I really enjoyed the food over there and one of the big differences was I didn’t have to ___________ over there, which we always had to do in the mess halls in the United States. Also, over there the Saudi Arabian people and a lot of the times and the Italians were living in Saudi Arabia a lot of the time. The Italians were there during World War II and after World War II, and they must have stayed there and worked and I remember we stayed there with the Italians and the food I thought was excellent in Saudi Arabia I thought they did the K.P. which was really nice in the sense that in Saudi Arabia I didn’t have to deal picking up the cigarette butts or doing K.P. or stuff like that.

Krall: Did you ever get _________ from your family?

Schlegel: Well, there was a really small town near our base called Al Coe Bar and we would take a taxi and the Saudi Arabian people, the king of them would give them cards to different people. For whatever reasons, I don’t know, and he would hand out the stuff like that and they would make a taxi out of it and take us up to Al Coe Bar. They had little shops in there, so I would go from shop to shop to bargain for things, and you know they didn’t have a set price over there and we had to go back and forth with the and working there. I bought some things and sent them home, like little statues and stuff like that. They liked getting stuff from Saudi Arabia. It let my parents see what was happening, it was interesting to buy some of those things they made hand crafts and stuff and also come to think of it, they had a lot of tales over there. And they would make a suit just to fit you, they would fit you and everything I remember one incident I ordered a suit to be made and this Arabian fellow measured me up for the suit to get a coat made, made of cashmere a nice fancy top coat, it would have been nice to have that today, but I know one incident I wanted to get a suit made and the guy required $20 down so I gave him $20 and later on I went back to see what the progress was, and I was told he left the county, so I lost my $20, but I did have my suit made then.

Krall: What is your opinion on how the Korean War started?

Schlegel: Well, I think it probably had to do with the Communist regime, which was in the North trying to take over South Korea. After World War II stopped, the country was really split in two. The North was Communist and the South was Democratic, and the Communists were trying to unite the country under the communism, and when they crossed the parallel, of course that’s how the war started.

Krall: How do you think the war ended?

Schlegel: Well, I really don’t think it ever did end, and today they didn’t even call an end to the war.

Achey: What were your thoughts on Eisenhower being elected?

Schlegel: Well, I thought it was a good idea. I liked him, and I thought he did a good job.

Achey: What was your opinion on his war plans?

Schlegel: Well, I don’t really have a big opinion on his war plans because at that point in my life, I wasn’t really involved in politics.

Achey: He threatened to use the A-bomb on other countries. Do you think this was a good way to handle situations?

Schlegel: No, I don’t think it was a good way to threaten to use they A-bomb, especially from hind sight on the situation on what it is now a days. That’s not a good idea. There are to many countries that are getting the A-bomb, and it could be a very disastrous thing.

Achey: Can you explain as much as you can about the battle of Pork Chop Hill? Battle 255 I think.

Shlegel: I don’t know much about that, no, the battles in Korea. I was not there.

Achey: When the war was going on? Did you see any defense ships?

Schlegel: In Saudi Arabia I had some friends come with me to Saudi Arabia from New York Griffis Air Force Base. So these were the closest friends I had over there. There weren’t that many Air men stationed there, because it was just a refueling base at that point in time.

Achey: After the war was over, did you keep in contact with any new friends that you made?

Schlegel: No but interestingly enough, I did get a phone call after 50 years from one of the men I was stationed with in Saudi Arabia, and it came as much of a shock and a surprise, pleasantly I must say. Since then we’ve played a couple games of golf together, and talked about the old days in Saudi Arabia. That was a real pleasant surprise.

Achey: How did you feel when truce talks were starting to be passed around?  Schlegel: Well, I was glad to see the truce talks start because obviously most of the fighting stopped, and I’m very disappointed in the fact that they didn’t declare an end to the war and actually now a days, their’re trouble after all this time.

Achey: When peace treaties were signed, did you want to go home immediately?

Schlegel: Well, no. I had to, I knew how long I had to stay stationed over seas, and I didn’t have any thoughts of going home before my time was up. And that was the end of 1954. So after I came home from Saudi Arabia, I had about another year and a half to go in the service yet to fulfill my obligation.

Achey: After the peace treaties were signed, did you still have the same role in the war?

Schlegel: Yes I did. I was still in the Air Police I got stationed in. When I flew back from Saudi Arabia, I flew to Augusta, Georgia, and after I was there about a year I was transferred to California to Fair Field Air Force Base in California, which is inside Travis Air Force Base.

Achey: What was life like on your bases after the peace treaties? Were people happier? What was it like?

Schlegel: Yeah, I would say people were happier knowing that they weren’t gonna be involved in wars or anything like that. Of course for my self, I had about six months left when I was in California. It was just a great experience to see what it was like in California. That’s the first time I was out west that far. So that was nice from that point of view.

Achey: Did you think it was necessary to stay those extra years after the war was over to stay over and still be at bases?

Schlegel: No, I did not. When my four years were up, I was anxious to get out of the service and I went to college local college at Lebanon Valley. I got my degree from there and that’s what I wanted to do.

Achey: How did you feel when you were finally coming home from the war?

Schlegel: Very anxious to get my life started again. Things changed. You’re a lot older, and I was anxious to get my college degree and started my rest of my life. Get a good job whatever everybody else wants to do.

Achey: What were you expecting society to be like when you and your other veterans arrived back in the U.S.?

Schlegel: I didn’t have any serious thoughts about what life was gonna be like when I got back in the U.S. and I don’t think any young people at that time gave a lot of thought.

Achey: Did the people in your town think what you did in the war was wrong or how’d they feel about what you did?

Schlegel: Well, remember I wasn’t part of the veterans that came back from fighting in Korea. And I didn’t have negative thoughts, and I didn’t know anybody that had any negative thoughts about the veterans who came back from Korea. I don’t think that was a problem in our society at that time.

Achey: What was it like when you met your family again after the war?

Schlegel: Well of course it was great joy and my brothers were not home because they were in the service at that time. It was really a pleasure to be home again.

Achey: Did the military affect you mentally?

Schlegel: Yeah. Yes, I think it did. I think it matures you a lot faster than you would otherwise. I matured that the difference was when I went to college. The difference is 18 versus 22 makes a tremendous difference in your outlook on life and your facing responsibilities.

Achey: Were you affected in anyway physically?

Schlegel: No, I don’t think so. I can’t remember that I had any serious physical problems.

Achey: Is there anything you regret about your service? Something you could’ve done or something you didn’t do.

Schlegel: Yes, I like to travel, and I wish I would’ve traveled more. I had chances to go to other places, other continents, other countries. Unfortunately, I didn’t take advantage of all of them.

Achey: Where do you wish you would’ve went if you could’ve went somewhere else?

Schlegel: Well, I could’ve went to Africa, and I could’ve went to Bahrain where were having trouble right now on the island. They want to over throw their king or they want him to change the form of government they have. But it would’ve been interesting for me to see Africa and and also the Bahrain island.

Achey: After the Korean war, did you ever think about enlisting again in any other wars?

Schlegel: No. I don’t think any serious thoughts on that. No, I don’t.

Achey: How long did it take for life to go back to normal after you got back from the war?

Schlegel: I do not think it took very long. I was under no stressful conditions when I was in the service. So I can’t remember anything that would stick out in my mind that is was a rough time like that.

Krall: Did you have any other experiences in Saudi Arabia?

Schlegel: Yeah. One interesting experience that comes to mind is one time. You know over there we were not allowed to have or even wear religious medals because it’s a Moslimovic Country, and they didn’t want any Christians in there. So we were told not to wear our religious medals and of course we weren’t allowed to have mass services or anything like that. One time we used to have mass in the local theater there. We had a small theater there, and one of the Arabs came with his harem, and they were up in the projection booth, and they came early. They happened to see that we were having mass. Shortly after that experience, the priest had to leave the base, Saudi Arabia, and I don’t return for another six months or something like that. We had to be real careful. We didn’t have mass anymore in the theater. I think, as I recall, I think we used to have mass in the Quonset hut after that. You know over there was a little different. The Saudi Arabian government didn’t allow us to carry weapons, so even though I was Air Policeman, I didn’t carry any weapons of any kind. The only thing I had was a club. Of course their soldiers who stood guard with us, they were allowed to carry revolvers in their holster. That was on the main gate only. When I was guarding other posts where we might have lumber, all the things that go along with running a base, the only thing I had then was a club. There wasn’t really a whole lot to steal. So we had no troubles in that sense. We still had to guard those facilities.

Schlegel: Other interesting things about Saudi Arabia is experiencing the sand storms where you can hardly see. The fact that our entertainment they would allow us to sign desert vehicles out and drive different places. One time a couple of us guys got a vehicle and went out to swim in the Persian Gulf. There was a bunch of kids playing around like you would normally expect, we would jump in the sand dune and we’d role down into the Persian Gulf to go swimming. That’s neat. There’s not many people that can say they swam in the Persian Gulf. We were laying in the sun and not realizing how hot that sun is in Saudi Arabia. I got sun burnt so bad. Then I had to pull guard duty that night and I remember not having anything to deal with sun burn. I took some in those days we had to what you call Vaseline Air tonic which is like a lubricant and an oil and I remember rubbing that on my legs and going out and pulling guard duty all night and really be suffering in pain. It took about a day or two for that to go away. To the point where it didn’t hurt me anymore. The other thing we would do, near our base in Saudi Arabia was the Amco Oil base and there were a lot of Americans in this oil facility. They had all kinds of entertainment that you would see in the United States. There were families there and they would have schools their for there children. I remember visiting the facility one time and going to a dance with the daughters and stuff of the people who lived in that area. I guess their kids also were short on entertainment. There wasn’t a lot to do there once you’re off the base. So that was an interesting experience to see that.

Schlegel: This is a picture in my uniform I wore in my career in the Air Force. In Saudi Arabia, you can see the punishment they did to their citizens over there. It’s pretty severe and pretty nasty. This was right outside our main gate on the base. I was stationed on Duron Air Force base. This is the picture of the main gate. I’m standing there. There was always a Saudi Arabian guard soldier there with the American at the main gate. There was always two of us there just at the main gate. The other posts we were just by ourselves. These are pictures of the people how they lived. The conditions looked pretty rough over there. This is a camp that they had. This is the same thing. These camps were the kind of camps that they could tear down and move them right away. There was nothing permanent.

Schlegel: This is me. I got a camel ride. Not many guys can say they rode a camel. This is where we had to deliver water to our outpost in the desert. Of course there was no was no way of getting water other than when we delivered it to the outpost. This is a picture of a little town Al Khobar near the base, and this is way they transfer cement up to the top of the building when they’re making more than a one story building. It’s pretty interesting to see how they had to do that and use human labor instead of machinery. Last but not least, this is an opportunity I had to go to Jerusalem, and this is supposed to be a street that Christ walked on in his crucifixion. That was pretty interesting for me to tour all those holy places in Jerusalem.

Krall: Is there any additional information you want to tell us or other stories?

Schlegel: As we left Massachusetts to fly to Saudi Arabia, of course we had to stop to refuel on the way. We stopped at the Azores, which is a small island. We had about a two hour or three hour delay there to refuel. They told us we had to be back at the Air Field at so many hours or whatever it was. There was five of us guys who came on the same flight, and we went to visit the island to see what was there. We found a building that had slot machines in it, so we were playing the slot machines. When we came back to the Air Field to get our flight to continue on to Saudi Arabia, we saw the airplane taking off. We kinda had a depressed feeling of what’s gonna happen now because we were left there without our orders or our clothing or anything. Of course the sergeant at the airfield chewed us out as he should have. He told us we were gonna get court marshaled all that stuff and put the fear of God in us. What really happened then is we had to hitch hike on planes as they would come through the Azores and going in the direction that we were going on. We would hitch a ride and the next stop was from French Morocco. This is a picture of the Azores when we were there. French Morocco when we arrived there. These were the tents we had to stay in over night. In French Morocco it was right outside Casablanca. Then from French Morocco we finally arrived in Tripoli and caught up to our original flight. Thank goodness. From there on, we were with the same flight again and made it to Saudi Arabia.

Schlegel: As I recall, though, I think we did have an engine problem, and we had to stop overnight in Cypress Island until they were able to fix the minor problem on the airplane. Then we continued on to Saudi Arabia. This is the top coat I had tailor made in Saudi Arabia. It’s of cashmere. Obviously, it no longer fits me, but I kept it. These are a couple of souvenirs I brought back from there. This is what’s left of my uniform that I wore in the service. You can see how much I grew since then. It’s a little small for me now. Anyway, that’s the extent of it.

Krall: Once again, thank you John Schlegel.

Schlegel: It was my privilege; it brought back a lot of memories, things I forgot about. It was fun to review them once again.

__**Narrative**__   A lot of people see war as people fighting on the front lines. They never get to see anything else that goes on. Some people don’t get recognized for what they did, Mr. Schlegel played a very important role in the Korean War. He might not have fought in any of the battles, but he still had a job to do. On the day August 27th 1934, Mr. Schlegel was born in Lebanon Pennsylvania. As a kid, Mr. Schlegel loved outside activities such as camping in the woods, which made training camp much easier for him later on. Mr. Schlegel decided to enlist in the army right out of high school, along with some of his friends. At first he requested to be an airplane mechanic. He wanted his occupation in the military to be something he could use once he got out of the service. Unfortunately, he did not get to be a mechanic. Instead, he was assigned a guard in a refueling base in Saudi Arabia in the 1950’s. Before Mr. Schlegel was flown to Saudi Arabia, though, he had to go to boot camp. Mr. Schlegel traveled to New York to Griffis Air Force Base in Rome New York. There he enjoyed the many tasks they had to perform, such as the shooting range and crawling under barbed wire fences. After basic training, it was time for Mr. Schlegel to go to Saudi Arabia. Mr. Schlegel and some of his colleagues however fell into a difficult situation before they left the United States. Mr. Schlegel as well as some other trainees missed their flight to Saudi Arabia. When they first got to the Airport, they were told they had a certain amount of time until they had to return. When they got back to the airport they saw their plane taking off. They had to island hop to catch back up with their plane. One island they visited was the Azores. Eventually, they caught up with their flight later that day to their new base. Once they caught back up with their unit, they got yelled at. During his time in Saudi Arabia, as Mr. Schlegel had experienced many strange and interesting things. The food was very enjoyable for him. He appreciated the fact that it wasn’t the same food in the United States. Usually the locals would provide food. Then, one morning, while Mr. Schlegel was guarding his base, he and another guard noticed some people gathered around their gate, so they went to go see what the problem was. There he saw a very repulsive image, a thief was punished for what he had done. The man had been brutally decapitated and his hands and feet were chopped off, a common punishment in Saudi Arabia. In Saudi Arabia many things were different from the U.S. Mr. Schlegel really had to be aware of what he was doing at all times. In Saudi Arabia there were some nice people and some mean people. Mr. Schlegel learned this the hard way. One evening Mr. Schlegel went to go get a suit made. He met with a man who measured him and came up with a price estimate. The price set for the suit was $25, and the tailor asked for the money ahead of time. Mr. Schlegel paid the man and did not return for awhile giving the man time to make the suit. A while later Mr. Schlegel went back to the man to see what the progress was, and when he reached where he met the man earlier, he was told the tailor left the country. Not all Saudi Arabians were bad however, some were very nice. While Mr. Schlegel was stationed in Saudi Arabia, he had always had a Saudi Arabian guard with him. Mr. Schlegel’s job in the military wasn’t exactly a very well known job, but it was important. Mr. Schlegel’s occupation was to guard the refueling base, and it was risky for this reason. Although he may not have been in the front line in Korea being shot at by enemy fighters, he did have to guard fuel with only a club-no guns, just a club. Not only would it have been challenging if someone tried to attack the base if it were attacked, but a man with a club wasn’t exactly an intimidating image either. As was said earlier, Mr. Schlegel’s job was very important, although it may not seem as dangerous as some jobs during the Korean war. It certainly was a key part. Now, Mr. Schlegel is 76 years old, and a father as well as a grandfather, uncle, great uncle, and many others. Mr. Schlegel should always be remembered for his military service.